When You Feel Abandoned by God

Host: TJ Freeman

Summary: In this episode of Rural Church Renewal, host TJ Freeman interviews his dear friend, Sam Hahn, about his experiences with ministry burnout and feeling abandoned by God. Sam, a former pastor who transitioned to missionary work in West Africa, shares his deeply personal story of struggling with depression, the loss of his father, and the difficulties of adapting to a new country and ministry role. Throughout the interview, Sam reveals how he found renewed intimacy with God through honest lament. He offers practical advice for ministers facing similar struggles and emphasizes the importance of trusting in God's faithfulness. The conversation underscores the value of vulnerability, community support, and spiritual resilience.

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Transcript

TJ: Have you ever felt that you were abandoned by God? That's a pretty big question to ask somebody who's in ministry, and your temptation is gonna just be to say no. But I know that there are some listeners who have had that feeling like, God, where are you in this moment? And if you've ever felt like that in any capacity, you're going to enjoy this interview today with my dear friend, Sam Hanh.

Well, welcome back to another episode of Rural Church Renewal. My name is TJ Freeman and I am a pastor in rural Pennsylvania. And that means that, just like you, dear listener, I live in the middle of nowhere and I know what it's like to live in the middle of nowhere and try to minister the gospel.

It can be really lonely and tough. Our guest today is Sam Hahn, and I am going to give you an opportunity to introduce yourself in just a second, Sam, but I just wanted to say Sam and I were pastoring together in the middle of nowhere a while ago. He left to be a missionary and had a really tough experience while he was away, and that's what he's gonna be sharing with us today.

So Sam, could you just begin, brother, by telling us a little bit about who you are? 

Sam: Absolutely. My ministry life has been, I've done a lot of different things, but I was about what, 2016? Actually it was 2015. I was pastoring in a rural upstate Pennsylvania, not too far from TJ. Good friends, and, but it was during that time that God put a call in my life to go into the mission field.

TJ: All right, Sam, as we get started, just tell us a little bit about who you are as a human. 

Sam: Gotcha. Okay. Sometimes I wonder. No. Um. So I am, as a human, I am married to my wife Jennifer. We've been married for 21 years. I have somehow five children, four girls, and one boy.

The fifth girl was a surprise. Mm-hmm. But it, it's one of those beautiful things where we went through nine year, eight to nine years of infertility and then God answered all of the prayers we prayed during those nine years in fertility, and now we're gone from infertile to fertile. Yeah. So. 

TJ: I would say. 

Sam: Both my wife and I have been, felt like we've been called to ministry and it's sustained us through all of the adventures of it. 

TJ: Okay. So that's where we met. You moved here to rural Pennsylvania in the mid 20 teens? 

Sam: Yes, it was, uh, 20, actually 2011. Oh. Was when I moved here.

TJ: Okay, great. I saw you for the first time riding your motorcycle through town, and I thought, who is that cool guy on the motorcycle? I need to meet him. And then later found out who you were. 

Sam: Yeah. I've never been accused of being cool before, so that was why I got the motorcycle so I could fake the funk.

TJ: Yeah, that's great. So what happened that you were ministering in rural Pennsylvania and then you left and went away? 

Sam: It's a bit of a complicated story. So I was served on active duty as a logistics officer before I went into the ministry. And while I was there, I met a man named Edison, who was a Ugandan soldier who wanted to come to the States to get the education so that he could become a pastor in Uganda.

That was the seed that God planted like 10 years before it ever happened. So fast forward to 2011 through 2016. God placed me in upstate PA and I fell in love with the people, but there were some difficulties that were going on in that congregation. There was a spiritual battle that was taking its toll on me, but in that God was merciful, that there was a great ministry that was taking place.

There was people I just absolutely loved, but in that there was like a soil that, that seed for taking the education that God had given me, the opportunities that God had given me. And using that to teach and train pastors locally and church leaders locally in Africa. And so then in 2015, God gave permission to that call, opened up the doors, and then in 2016 we left to go to the mission field.

TJ: Which I hated. Yes. I was glad that God's doing mission work or whatever. That's great. But to lose a friend. Yes. And you know, one of the things that I thought about a lot while you were here and then while you left in rural places, to find a like-minded brother. Yes. Who you can minister alongside is tough.

So you and Jen were some of Katie and my first like ministry friends in the area. And I remember, like, I remember the excitement of you guys getting pregnant, all that kind of stuff. It was awesome. And I also remember the disappointment of, Hey guys, guess what? We're moving. So that's a tough thing to lose a brother out of a rural place.

Yes. But we were excited about what you were doing. Yes. But when you got over to, I mean, you had a long journey to get into the actual field that didn't go as you expected. Just tell us a little bit about that. 

Sam: So we, there's many different refrains to this particular song that God written in our life.

But it started where the French Embassy originally didn't issue us our visas, and as a result, we were late to our 'cause. We were going to West Africa where the, the official language and most of West Africa is French. So you have to learn French that so that you have the ability to learn the local languages.

So we missed our starting course of our French language learning. So we went, we're gonna do half of it, and then we were gonna go to the first country that we're going to. And just take what we've learned and learned the local language. The problem was, is there was terrorist threats against our team and local partners.

And so as a result, our team pulled out of the town to protect our local partners. And because of things got set in advance the team dissolved instead of being able to come back. And so this was a month from when I was supposed to go into country. 

TJ: Wow. So let's just review. So you're in rural Pennsylvania, it's not the easiest work.

Yes. You sense a call to go out into the mission field. You get over there and everything unravels. Yeah. On the team you were about to go into? 

Sam: Yeah. So we were still in France when this happened. Okay. So we were still in language running, so right now we're in France and we don't have a place to go.

I see. Right. And so it's like, where do we go now? And then we ended up going to Dekar Senegal, where most of our team ended up rendezvousing anyway. Okay. And it also because of the French Embassy not issuing the visas, God meant for that time. 'cause then we were able to stay a little bit longer and get stronger French. Which meant that I was then able to teach local pastors with stronger French, which was really needed.

TJ: Awesome. And the most fun French phrase to say is? 

Sam: The one I say the most often is Petit. Petit. Okay. Little by little the birdie builds his nest. 

TJ: Nice. I love it. It sounds amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so you end up over in Senegal, and is that where you started to have an experience where you felt like the Lord abandoned you?

Sam: It honestly started back in rural ministry. Oh, okay. Because of, I call 'em the faithful wounds of ministry. Mm-hmm. Like, because you're on the front lines of helping people who are broken, people becoming sanctified, and made whole in Christ. Mm-hmm. There is a lot of wounds that, spiritual wounds that, that come along with that.

And there were some wounds that were given by people who I thought were brothers. Mm. Yeah. And that was really hard. I didn't realize when I went to the mission field, I was already burned out. Mm. And contrary to popular opinion, it's very difficult to recover from burnout and international movement.

Yeah. Right. So, but then also right before we went to Senegal, my dad was diagnosed with a brain tumor. And he ended up passing away three months after we arrived in Senegal. Mm-hmm. Which was just absolutely devastating. 

TJ: So you were out of the US when he passed away? 

Sam: Yes. Yeah. Yes. I, by the grace of God, got to visit him while I was in France, but it was quickly after going to Senegal.

Yeah. He passed away. And that was just absolutely devastating. 'cause my dad was a friend, a mentor, just somebody I looked up to. It was just like a vacuum of my soul. Oh man. And because of all of the complicated, compounding griefs, it was very hard to properly grieve the loss of my father as well as the loss of, you know, all of the other stuff that goes along with moving loss of good friends, as you were even mentioning. 

TJ: Yeah. And now you're in a place that, in a sense, it's not rural where you are, but it feels rural in the sense that you're in the middle of nowhere spiritually. Yes. Yes. You're away from everything that's familiar or comfortable.

Yes. You don't have anybody who even really knows you there. Yes. That's gotta be a really tough place to be. 

Sam: And you don't even know how to use the grocery store. Yeah. Like, wow. My wife and I joke that we missed addresses. Mm. Because, and you don't say, oh, I'm at, you know 558 North boring street.

Yeah. You say, well, I'm across from the mosque, but not the blue one. The red one. Wow. And it's near the bank, but not that bank. And then if you, you know, if you go and honk your horn three times, I'll go out and see if it's you. And Wow. Yeah. So yeah. Different world. Yeah. You have nothing, none of the resources that you are, that we are accustomed to. Sure. In the states were there to lean upon. 

TJ: Yeah. So as you started to recognize some challenges in your own heart and soul. How did that unfold? Did you just start to realize, wow, I've been a little bit in a funk? Or was it like, you fell off the cliff spiritually? What, tell us kind of what your journey was like when you really started to realize, wow, I'm feeling like, where is the Lord in this?

Sam: It was almost immediately. 

TJ: Wow. Immediately after your father passed away? 

Sam: No, immediately getting to Senegal. Okay. It was just kind of like a, what have I done? 

TJ: Wow. That's gotta be a bad feeling. 

Sam: Yeah. It was because you're sitting there thinking, okay. I've moved my entire family and now it's just, everything feels upside down.

Mm-hmm. I don't know how to engage this. Great ministry took place, but, building into that place. It was already my own foundation was crumbling. Mm-hmm. The foundation God was building up underneath was much different, but I hadn't gotten there yet. 

TJ: Yeah. 

Sam: And so my own foundation was crumbling. I wasn't recovering from the burnout previously.

Mm-hmm. And, and so it was just like, you second guess yourself. Did I run away? Mm-hmm. And anytime I've gone from one church to another, even when I know it's God, it's like, you have the question, did I run away from the last charge? 

TJ: A lot of pastors can relate to that feeling, I'm sure, because we all like the idea where it's like, here's an opportunity that I'm running toward it.

Mm-hmm. But we all carry the baggage of difficulty. Yeah. And it's hard to know in your own soul. Mm-hmm. You know, Jeremiah says the heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked. Amen. Who can know it? So we do question our hearts a lot. And that only compounds the bad feelings, right?

Sam: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And then because we were on a different team, with a different mission than we were originally going to, I also felt shoehorned in. Oh, right. And so I felt like I had just kind of muscled my way into a place that. Granted, I love the people that I worked with.

Yeah. The other missionaries and people on my team. I'm grateful for them. But at the same time, you still feel like you've pushed your way in Mm. Yeah. So it's like, do they really even want me here? Do I really belong? And those are the questions of that kind of start to hack away at the sense of this is God's calling.

Mm-hmm. And it was God's calling for that season, but it was very difficult to feel when I would pray. It was like, Hey, Lord, I'm still here. Like, right. Did you lose the address? 

TJ: Well, you didn't know what mosques to go by. 

Sam: Yeah. Yeah. It's not the blue one. It's the red. It's red Lord. Yeah.

With the bad singer. Everybody knows it. 

TJ: Oh yeah. Nice. So, okay. And then what kind of feelings did you go through? How long did this last? I mean, kinda walk us through some of those. 

Sam: Honestly. I realized about, kind of halfway through that I'd been struggling with probably an eight year season of pretty deep depression.

Wow. And it had gone very dark and very deep, by the middle of that. Our pastor in Senegal. Just a man who loves Jesus. Pastor Pop, he, I remember one Christmas Eve service. Actually, no, it was New Year's Eve, went from 11:00 PM to 4:00 AM. Whoa. Yeah, it was the Christmas Eve services did it too, but I just remember being really discouraged and he hugged me.

Hmm. And I just had the sense that he was praying over me. Wow. And during that time, after that, there was a lifting of the veil. Hmm. The veil of depression, I should say. Yeah, slightly. Okay. It wasn't completely removed, but it was just, there was a sense that, that for that brief second God had seen me.

Mm. And it was just like, okay. Yeah. But that was kind of, I think God preparing me for a much more intense drop that happened later. 

TJ: Okay. What happened after that? 

Sam: Fast forward with a lot of ministry ups and downs. It was actually 2020, but had nothing to do with Covid. Okay. It was probably prior to just when those early roaming rumors mm-hmm.

Of Covid were coming out. So it had nothing to do with that initially. At the beginning of 2020, I just realized we were coming home, on home assignment in 2020, and I realized just how profoundly burned out. I was, mm, spiritually, emotionally, physically. And then I heard a podcast of two YouTubers that I like.

They just talked about how they left the faith. They did that deconstruction journey. And one of them was like, I just didn't wanna leave the faith. And just with his honest wrestle, it was just hitting the right point in the structure to knock it all over.

Wow. I'd been trying to build my foundation on Christ, but it was just, in that moment, it felt like all the cards blew out. They were all on a table. And so it was just like the cards that I was holding to, I don't know if I've mixed my metaphor. That's okay.

We're tracking with you. All the cards I was holding, I was willing to lay 'em down, pick 'em up, and if I picked them up again and faith wasn't one of the cards that picked up. I was willing to live with that. Okay. And so it was like, wow. And I was kinda laughing at it 'cause it was like, I'm a missionary.

I'm supposed to go overseas to show people the love of Jesus. Right. And help them to fall in love with Jesus. And here I am, falling out of love with Jesus. Wow. That's a tough place. Yeah. Yeah. But God was profoundly gracious in it. Mm. He didn't remove it. He didn't, you know, instantaneously heal it, but instead he let me walk through it.

Mm. And so, I had a kind of a basic proof that I had to run through my mind. Like, if I land on Christ, then I'm gonna pick him back up. And the simple proof was there's clearly evil. Mm-hmm. I could see it in Senegal, I could see it in the child slavery and everything else. And so that means that if there is evil, there has to be a God.

Right? And that God has to be just wow. But the problem is, is I could see the evil in my own heart, the times where I turned my back on the kids that, you know, needed help. Sure. And where it's like you just feel so helpless you can't help. And it's like I could see the times I've mistreated people and it's like if there's justice, a just God that's holy.

I have no hope. Wow. And so then it's like, is there another place I can find the hope of grace? Mm-hmm. And that is only in a personal God. Yeah. Through Jesus Christ. Like, wow. Being able to interact with Islam. I spent some time thinking like, what is the Islam? They only have the Just God. Mm-hmm. Right. And Hinduism, they don't have a personal God, but they only have a just God.

Wow. And so it really was like there is no other name given among men by which we must be saved, man. So it was just like, okay, so now I see this and this is like, okay, I've kind of hit a bedrock. Sure. But in this, it was just then Jesus, I was struggling with the loss of my father, and I couldn't see God as a holy, good father.

Mm. I could see him as a good general of army, as a good king of kings. Sure. But General of Army, king of Kings doesn't know one each in the crowd, you know? That's right. But a personal God does. Yeah. And so it was just like, as I prayed over Isaiah 53, it's just like I kept seeing Jesus crucified. And it wasn't like Jesus crucified on the cross, you know, up on a hill.

I was looking up at him. It was more like, he was just like feeling like he was right there, his face next to mine. Wow. And his tears crying out louder than mine. 

TJ: Yeah. 

Sam: And that he was suffering in the midst of this. Wow. With me. And so it was just like, it was just that it took almost two to three years to actually come out of that.

Just the shaking of everything. But in that, I saw the intimacy of God's love for me in the midst of it. Wow. And so through that wilderness, a deeper worship of God took place and I was able to see the love that the father had for me. 

TJ: That's amazing. I'll bet you during the midst of that, if somebody said to you, Hey, James said, consider it pure joy when you face trials of many kinds, it would've felt like kicking you while you were down.

Oh, yeah. But now being on the other side of it, you're kind of saying that, yes, you know, I, God brought me through a wilderness, but he did it to firm me up in a way that I. Makes me more mature now. Am I hearing that right? 

Sam: Yeah. The way I would say it is I would never, ever ask to go through that again.

Mm. If you said you could take it away from me, I'd fight you. Wow. Yeah. Right, right. Because of the intimacy I got with the Lord through that time. Mm. It was so precious to me, it was worth every second of it. Mm. I beg the Lord never to take me through that season again. And I know he will, and I know he will be faithful.

Yeah. And so it's like, through those hard times, the advice of consider it pure joy. I don't think in the moment it's not helpful. It doesn't feel helpful. But really what we need to do as brothers in Christ is be willing to be hurting with one another.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. I might not say, Hey, consider it pure joy. Guess what? Buck up. You're gonna love Jesus more on the other side. Right. I'm gonna say, yeah, that sucks. I've been there. Hey let me sit with you. 

TJ: Yeah. That's so encouraging. I went to a pastor's retreat not long ago and some guys gave their testimony and we were asked to pray a prayer of lament over them.

Amen. And the Christian posture toward lament kind of fits, at least the American Christian posture, fits the American culture. You know, you're supposed to be happy all the time and do whatever makes you happy. And within Christianity, sometimes it's easy to try to just put everything into the, you know, let's be happy because of Jesus category.

Yes. But that lamentation is a big part of what it means to be a Christian. 

Sam: Lamentation saved my faith. Wow. And it's not just saved my faith, since then I've walked alongside brothers who have just like. They're shaking their fist to God, you know, ready to call down his wrath upon themselves.

Mm. And I read Psalm 88 with them. Mm-hmm. I know somebody who, he's like, I can't pray right now. And said, well, I'm gonna pray and I'm gonna pray psalm 88 over you. Wow. And Psalm 88 doesn't, of all the psalms of lament, Psalm 88 doesn't hit the turn. Every Psalm of lament hits the turn where it's like, but you O Lord, Psalm 88.

Fascinating. Ends with, I'm still shaking my fist to God. Yeah. But no, for me it was being able to cry out those laments. Mm-hmm. I think lament is such a profound and important that we probably need like three other podcasts just to get to my, into my thoughts on lament. It is evidence that God desires us to be open and honest with our brokenness and vulnerability.

Yeah. And be utterly dependent on him for the resolve of those. And in those laments true worship. That's why we resolve our laments too fast. And we never get to true worship. Yeah. That's good. Good. We get to, we get to some emotional stuff. But we never really dive deeply into the lament and actually feel the brokenness of this world and what sin has done to us to get to worship.

TJ: Well, I'll tell you what, we'll have you back on another episode if you'd be willing, we could spend some time talking about Lament. This time we gotta get wrapped up here. So if you could just kind of tell us, speak to the brother who's in ministry right now, and he is somewhere in that stage of maybe realizing that he is, he's been burned out or that he's wondering where is God and all of this.

Maybe he's on the other end where it's just really deep and hard and he's wondering if he's gonna be able to press on. How could you just encourage another fellow minister in, in that moment?

Sam: My encouragement is, is that, though, it feels like you're alone, you are not. Mm-hmm. Even if there's nobody else in your immediate area, the Holy Spirit is there with you. Mm-hmm. It's good. And working you through it. And so when I went through kind of some of my time in Senegal, I wrote a blog post on it.

But I'm just gonna share the points of that post is that, one of the things that was encouraging me and sustaining me during that time. 'cause I was longing to hear God's voice and couldn't hear it. Yeah. And so I kind of came up with four steps for myself and the first one is long to hear God's voice. Desire it.

Like one of the psalms of lament, Psalm 42 is Why are you downcast all my soul? Why are you turmoil with Emmy Hope and God for I shall again praise Him, my salvation and my God. 

TJ: Good song that came outta that too. Have you heard that? 

Sam: I don't know if I have.

TJ: It's a song called Lord From Sorrows Deep I call, and it's just going over Psalm 42 by Matt Papa and Matt Boswell. Sometimes, you know, it's hard to hear the word, but if you put on a song that is singing the word. Mm-hmm. You can mark your soul in a different way. So, Lord, from sorrows, deep I call would be a strong recommendation.

Sam: Amen. I'm gonna have to check that out. Yeah. Great. So the second step is remind yourself of God's historical faithfulness both in your life and in the life of Israel as we see through the Bible. Yeah. And the life of other believers who have gone through similar times. Just continually remind yourself that, that God is faithful and he hasn't left us.

The third step is pray for sensitivity. That your heart will be sensitive to the movement of the Holy Spirit when it comes. That's good. And then wait with anticipation. 'cause there'll be a time, 'cause sometimes God's not talking because he's just sitting there with you. Mm. Yeah. And there's nothing that needs to be said.

He's just sitting there with you. And so wait with anticipation for when his voice comes alive. And then finally is repeat, just keep doing those four steps. I love that. Just keep doing those four steps. That's good. And it might take. A week. It might take a month, it might take eight years.

Yeah. And just keep doing those four steps and you will dig a deep well of God's grace and joy that couldn't be dug any other way. 

TJ: Praise God, brother. That is super helpful. Dear brother listening, if you are struggling and would like to talk to somebody, I would be happy to get you connected with Sam. And you can always reach out to me, tj@brainerdinstitute.com.

If you have questions about this episode or any other episode, we would be happy to talk to you. So Sam, you're now back in the States? Yes. Pastoring not super far from here. 

Sam: Yes, it's a church in Horseheads, New York called, that's a real name. Yes. Horseheads. The story is even wilder, but that's another podcast for another day, another podcast.

That's right. It's Maranatha Bible Chapel is, the church that I am just absolutely privileged. It is the, the greatest privilege of my ministry career to be able to be a pastor and serving with that church. 

TJ: And we're glad to have you back in the area, brother. It's great. Me too. Alright, well hey, thank you for your time today.

We really appreciate it and we'll look forward to having you back hopefully very soon. I look forward to that. Thank you so much for the invite. Awesome. Yep. Alright, this episode, as all episodes, is a ministry of the Brainerd Institute for Rural Ministry. If you wanna learn more about what it means to glorify God in the middle of nowhere, head on over to brainerd institute.com.

We'll see ya.