Is it Time to Kill the Church Business Meeting?

Hosts: TJ Freeman, Joe Wagner, and Josh MacClaren

Summary: In this episode of Rural Church Renewal, TJ Freeman, Joe Wagner, and Josh McLaren discuss how to transform dreaded church business meetings into enjoyable, gospel-centered gatherings. They talk about the negative experiences commonly associated with these meetings and suggest steps to shift the focus towards caring for each other, growing in Christ, and fulfilling God's mission. These tips include integrating scripture, prayer, and fellowship meals into the meetings, and the importance of shepherding and setting the right tone prior to the meetings. The episode emphasizes building a culture where church business meetings are anticipated with joy rather than fear and frustration.

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Transcript

TJ: Are you one of the many who dreads the church business meeting? You are not alone because those meetings can feel way more like a battle over the budget, time to complain about the building, questions about who's really in charge.

Church business meetings can feel far from the family life we see in Scripture. What if our meetings weren't just about business? What if they helped us care for each other, grow in Christ, and focus on God's mission? What if you could actually look forward to a church business meeting? Let's talk about how to make our meetings less like arguments and more like advancing the gospel.

Thank you for joining us for another episode of Rural Church Renewal. This is a podcast to help you, that person living in and functioning in some capacity in a rural church, trying to glorify God in the middle of nowhere. And for whatever reason, whatever struggle you've been facing. You clicked on this episode and we are here to help because we are three wild and crazy rural pastors.

My name is TJ Freeman and I have been pastoring in rural churches for almost two decades. 

Joe: Hey, my name is Joe Wagner and like TJ, I've been pastoring in rural churches for about two decades and done lots of stuff wrong, figured stuff out, and want to make sure you don't do a bunch of stuff wrong that I did.

Josh: What's going on guys? Josh McLaren here. I've been in rural ministry for almost seven years and I've really been thankful for it.

TJ: Part of the rhythm in the life of the rural church is having these things that we usually call business meetings. Why do these things even exist?

Joe: Well, you do have to do the business of the church, I suppose.

I just don't even like the name business meeting. 

TJ: Right. That term probably came from something more like... 

Josh: like corporate America almost.

TJ: I think so. And because churches have to register as an entity. You have to have business that you conduct. There has to be officers. You have to have meeting minutes. All these kind of things. That's trickled into just the life of the church. And so what is your experience been guys and having church business meetings?

Is it a big annual meeting? What's the kind of the rhythm been?

Joe: Well in a negative sense business meetings meetings become kind of like festivus, a time to air your grievances. That's an Ugly, ugly business meeting where there's lots of surprises on either side, you're bringing something brand new out or somebody else's waiting and they've got a hanger day.

They want to roll out in front and blow you up in front of everybody else. That's an ugly business meeting. 

TJ: Okay. And pattern of them? Is this something you've done quarterly annually? 

Joe: Yeah, quarterly generally. 

TJ: Yeah, we always used to have an annual business meeting and it was kind of like a tense thing you knew going into it.

There are going to be weird things that are brought up. There are going to be uncomfortable things that are said. And it's probably going to be dry and not that helpful. 

Josh: Probably long too, right? Long. If it only happens once a year, it's probably five, six hours. 

TJ: Yeah, and I remember coming to this church and having people tell me, I've never been to a business meeting because I've heard what they're like. They really can be a source of dread for rural pastors, rural church leaders, rural church members. The business meeting just isn't a pleasant thought. 

Joe: I just thought of a joke. 

TJ: Knock, knock. 

Joe: What do you call a gathering of Karens? 

TJ: Oh no. 

Joe: A business meeting. 

TJ: I apologize out loud for that comment. 

Joe: Nobody specifically named Karen. I'm talking about the cultural...

TJ: There's so much wrong with that statement. And so much wrong with our business meetings that we need to fix. Number one, we need to, because we've been talking about the sufficiency of scripture. 

Josh: Yep. 

TJ: We need to be able to connect the dots here to the bible and think about what the life of the church should look like and caring for the affairs of the church.

Can you think of anything in scripture that informs the life of the body? 

Josh: Yeah, I think of the early church in the book of Acts after 3, 000 were added to the church following Peter's sermon. This is what Luke records for us concerning what the people did. Verse 42 of Acts chapter 2, "And they devoted themselves to the apostles teaching and the fellowship to the breaking of bread and the prayers.

And awe came upon every soul and many wonders and signs were being done through the apostles and all who believed were together and had all things in common. And they were selling their possessions, belongings, and distributing the proceeds that all as any had need. And day by day, attending the temple together, and breaking bread in their homes, they received their food with glad and generous hearts, praising God, having favor with all the people.

And the Lord was gracious to add to their number day by day, those who were being saved." 

Joe: How awesome would a business meeting be in that church? 

Josh: Yeah, amen. 

TJ: Well, there are a couple things that are interesting. One is they, they were counting members somehow. They knew how many had believed the gospel and then been baptized.

And they knew that those numbers were increasing day by day after that. So there's some kind of metric that they're using to track. 

Joe: Those elders knew who they were accountable to. 

TJ: That's right. 

Joe: Who was accountable to them. 

TJ: Yeah, and it wasn't for the sake of saying, Ooh, 3000 were added. It's saying, here's our responsibility.

Here's who the family is, and here's our responsibility to them. There are some other places in scripture where there's business like things going on. I think of Acts 6. There's a disruption in the life of the church because of the either perceived or actual neglect of some of the widows there in the table service. And they organize themselves by actually finding and voting on who these prototype deacons would be in the life of the church. So there's something like a business meeting going on there.

My point in bringing that up is just saying It's not all just like, Hey, we have this sweet life where we're studying the Bible and eating together and breaking bread and all that stuff. We actually have to attend to some business at times. 

Josh: You know, I was thinking, even in the Corinthian church, something they weren't doing when they were gathering in 1 Corinthians 5, they weren't exercising biblical church discipline. When someone was defaming the name of Christ. 

TJ: That's right. 

Josh: And they were actually entertaining a sin that Paul said wasn't even practiced amongst Gentiles. 

Joe: You ever think about when the context of Paul writes, "For though I am absent in body, I am present in spirit, as of present." They were probably taking roll at a business meeting.

TJ: I mean, they certainly needed to know who's in and who's out. Yeah. Yeah. The problem came up in Acts 15 regarding circumcision in Gentiles. And so here we have a theological issue in the life of the church that they needed to work through and the Jerusalem Council met. That's not so much like a church business meeting like we would think today, but it is the church responding to an issue in a way that's a little more formal and decided and we're actually getting some business done.

Paul talks about something like this in 1 Corinthians 14, when he talks about what order should look like in a worship service. There's a way in which he is addressing the congregation saying, when we gather, this is what our time should look like. This is what our business should look like. I think we could go through other places in scripture and recognize that there are times in the life of the church when you must address practical things. And they're all going to be connected to something spiritual, but sometimes they may just not feel like that. Like when the furnace is on the the blink and you got to know if you're going to pay for a new one or not. Or when the parking lot is too small and you don't know what to do. Or when it's time for budgeting for the next year.

And the congregation needs to know whether or not they're behind the way that the church leaders are going to spend the money. 

Joe: I think one of the things when you're talking about something like the parking lot or the furnace or any other issues like that, I don't think you necessarily need to go into the business being trying to convince people. Go into that business meeting and see the gathered wisdom of the saints who are there.

Mm. And it's a benefit to you rather than something negative to overcome. 

TJ: Now part of the reason somebody might push back on that is they could say, well, that's true, but you know, Dave's got his hobby horse and he's the loudest, boldest one in the room and everyone just bows down to Dave. You know, we've seen that kind of stuff in a business meeting where it can be difficult.

So that's an indication of a problem in the life of the church. Pastorally or as a church leader, what would your responsibility be in helping prepare the saints for a healthy business meeting? 

Joe: I think one of the things that you could do is you can go prepare Dave for that meeting. Let him go and let him share with you.

Before that business meeting gets going, bring Dave onto your side. You get Dave on your side in the business meeting, gather his information and wisdom. I think that that's something that you certainly could try.

TJ: So there's probably some shepherding that needs to take place. Outside of the business meeting to prepare people for it, especially in a rural church where maybe one family has been in charge for a long time.

You as the pastor might be the perceived threat to their rule and domination. There could be a couple of families that are fighting. There could be some underlying issues where people aren't getting along and that bubbles up in the business meeting. So yeah, doing some pre shepherding to work through that stuff.

What about just in the way we refer to the business meeting, you think that's the best term? 

Josh: Probably not, because the church really isn't a business, it might be that formally in the government, but we're really a family. I think the way in which Acts 2 describes what this family was doing in Jerusalem should be how we're approaching our business meeting.

So even a change of language, and then a change of preparation for the meeting. Even up to what do you do the hour before you actually start the meeting. Why don't you just share a meal with the saints? Like, break bread together, fellowship with one another, and then open the meeting, not with, you know, a gavel and a, you know, all rise or however, I don't know, however you'd formally do that. But instead start with the reading of scripture, sing a hymn together, pray, and then get into the nitty gritty things that you need to pursue as the church.

TJ: That's a really good point, Josh, because what could be on the mind of somebody listening is, I would love to help see these meetings be more family oriented, but I'm not sure how to do that. And that's a really welcome and easy step that you've just given is start it from a spiritual mind. Don't just read that token passage of scripture, but meaningful Scripture is read, you pray together in a meaningful way, sing a song or two. That has an effect on the heart that's going to produce a different outcome in the meeting than just being there for business.

Joe: I've got a passage of scripture from Ephesians 4 in verse 22. It'll help your people get their minds right. This might be something you can even read. "Put off your old self, which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful desires and be renewed in the spirit of your minds and put on the new self created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness."

That's what we're doing as Christians who are gathered together. It's not a business meeting of secular people who don't believe in Christ. We are a new person now. We're united in our love for Christ and our desire to follow his mission. And that can be a primary motivator. 

TJ: Do you think it'd be okay to ask dangerous Dave or contentious Carl to be the one who reads the scripture to start the meeting? 

Joe: I think that'd be a great idea.

Josh: Especially if you'd shepherd them prior. 

Joe: Cause really what they want is they want to be heard, and they want to be seen, and they want some ownership. Give them some ownership over scripture.

TJ: And they generally want the best for the life of the church. 

Joe: Generally, yeah, I would agree. 

TJ: And what we're doing in a rural church is we're breaking old patterns. 

Joe: We're pointing them in the right direction. 

TJ: That's right. And letting the sufficient Scripture, drive our behavior when we're together in meetings like that.

You may need to do some teaching on this from the pulpit and talking about what meaningful membership looks like in the life of the church. Here's why we've been identified together as members. Here's the kind of mission that the Lord has us on. We're to make his glory known. It's why he made us. And when we gather to talk about the furnace.

When we start crunching numbers, when we ask questions like should we have Sunday school on this topic or that topic, whatever it is, those things that come up in that annual business meeting or quarterly business meeting that are uncomfortable, if they are scripturally informed and the congregation knows our heart needs to be unified around what God's word says even in these business like matters, that will really help the family bond around those things.

Joe: Sounds like you landed the plane pretty good there, brother. I think a lot of the hard work happens before that business meeting. You're building a culture. You can't surprise people like, Oh, we're going to be all happy and nice and nobody's going to fight or argue when you get to the business meeting.

But you're building this Christian culture into your church beforehand. And that business meeting then is an outcome of the spiritual maturity of the folks who are there. 

Josh: And it can get to a point where people no longer dread the business meeting. But they actually look forward to it.

TJ: I feel like that at our church. And I've never felt like that at any other church. No offense to all my other churches I've been a part of before. But I genuinely look forward to it.

So to help our listener here, what are some practical things that we can do, given some of the difficulties of business meetings.

Number one, if nobody's showing up, those are going to be really ineffective meetings. How can we actually build a culture where people want to go to these meetings?

Joe: I think adding a meal to the business meeting, adding some worship there will help in those particular areas because this is a time for us all to get together, this is time for us to enjoy one another, and you add that meal with people eating together before that business meeting It's going to set a mood, and it's going to be much more relaxed, and it's also going to encourage folks to come.

I think that that's a great idea. 

Josh: Yeah, and make sure they know ahead of time, like, make sure you're not just telling them the morning of, hey, business meeting tonight, by the way, we're going to have a meal. 

Joe: Absolutely. 

Josh: Make sure they're informed. 

TJ: Which is illegal, according to most constitutions. 

Joe: Two weeks!

TJ: Yeah. We got in trouble because we needed to have a business meeting one time, and we were 13 days instead of 14, and man, the pitchforks came out. So that's something to look at, too, is if you ever are in a position to reconstitute, what's the healthiest way for you to be able to have church family meetings that are effective without stepping all over... 

Joe: So what I was gonna say there is know what the rules are that you have and follow the rules. And then also something that I have shared with folks that has been super helpful is I say to them I'm not gonna surprise you, you guys don't surprise me in a business meeting going into it. And naturally flowing out of that is being able to post an agenda. This is what we're going to talk about. Do you guys have any new business that we want to add to the business meeting before we get into the heat of the moment?

TJ: And that is the time to do it. And what you need to help people understand is I'm not trying to duck questions here. 

Joe: Right. 

TJ: I want to be able to think about the question in advance so I can give you the best response to that. 

Joe: This is an opportunity for you to display some thoughtful, wise, understanding leadership and build trust with the members who are there.

TJ: Part of the reason people don't like these meetings sometimes is they can be used as weapons. And so somebody may have a strategy where it's like I'm gonna spring this on the leadership in front of everybody. 

Joe: Yeah put them in a hard spot so they have to say what I want them to say.

TJ: Or introduce doubt or something like this. Listen rural pastor, rural church leader. You have a responsibility To help those meetings be something that brings about good results in the life of the church. Not just let them be this runaway train that you're hoping to keep from causing too much damage. You need to set the tone. You need to set the agenda. You need to make sure people understand that, and also feel heard, and all of those kind of things.

Joe: I think that the tone, going into it, is probably a really pastoral tone. And I'm talking about how you actually speak, and how you talk, and how you lead into it. Don't put on your vice president of the bank voice. Use your pastoral, encouraging voice. 

TJ: Yeah. That's really good. Tone matters so much.

And also, just being confident in the Lord in those meetings and trusting Him. People can tell when you go into those things nervous, or when somebody asks you a question and you feel like they just punched you in the guts. Those things don't need to come out in front of everyone. You have a confidence in the Lord that allows you to say things like, "You raise a really interesting point. Let me Have some time to think about that and I'll share my response with the church. I'll set up a time that we can all get back together." Or something simple as "Hey, I appreciate your comment. This probably isn't the best place for that discussion. Let's have that discussion together after this meeting." Things like that You just say them and hopefully you have some leaders around you, some of our listeners won't, you're a solo pastor and you just get flung into these situations. Others if you have deacons or elders around you, talk to them ahead of time, plan, prep together, and make sure that they don't leave you out to dry.

That you kind of have each other's back in those kind of meetings, for the good of the congregation.

Joe: I would say, along with that, I think it's really important, if you do happen to get stumped up there, or somebody does ask you a really hard question, it's not the right way to put it, but like a pointed and trapping sort of a question, that's great for an elder to jump up next to you, or another church leader to back you up and have your back. And so I think you can prep them that way too. 

TJ: And if they don't, don't get frustrated and don't panic. Trust the Lord, pause, and pray in your own heart as you're preparing to answer, and say something that provides some leadership to the church in that moment. That's what they've called you there to do. That's what the Lord has installed you in that position to do.

So that's what you want to speak from. Hey, just a couple other real quick hits something. That's kind of fun We at our church drop in some silly slides. Goofy pictures of the the elder who's about to get up and share. The person who's going to come do their testimony, some silly thing. And it makes a light hearted mood that is good.

It sets the family tone versus the business tone. 

Joe: Do that in the fun parts, too. Don't have somebody with a slide in a really, really serious part drop in something. But I think you know how the way TJ's describing how to do that. I think that is super, super helpful to set the mood like what TJ's talking about.

TJ: So with God's help, the business meeting can become a family meeting that you actually look forward to. That may sound hard to believe. If you're in that position, you need to start with something really simple. Add some scripture, some prayer, and some singing to the beginning of the meeting. 

Joe: Possibly even your church covenant, if you have one.

TJ: Yes, that is a good point, Joe. If you have a church covenant that is good and faithful, read that before the members meeting. If you have a church covenant that you think this is not useful, and the church has not followed this, and it would do more harm to keep focusing on this instead of thinking about how we can redraft it.

You may not want to do that. 

Joe: Good point. 

Josh: Read it in shortened form, too, if it's long. 

TJ: Yeah, that's a wisdom call. In our church, we have a condensed version we read during the members meeting. Some churches do the whole thing. And also consider having a meal before. So just put some things up there that set the tone for the meeting.

If you're not doing those things, that's your next step. And then if you are doing those things, just keep working on, how can I set the tone properly? How can I shepherd people before the meeting and after the meeting? I had a brother come to me once and just share, hey, you know, I voted this certain way in the meeting and I think you saw it.

And it would have been encouraging if maybe we could have had a conversation about that afterward. And he was 100 percent right. I've tried to pay attention to that in meetings since. There's some shepherding maybe that has to happen after the meetings as well. So pray about this, ask the Lord for wisdom on how you can use the regularly scheduled business meeting to help build a culture of love and unity and I'm gonna use a phrase.

I don't love but like a missional mindset. It's an opportunity to be outward thinking and considering how the things you're doing in the life of the church match what the mission of the Lord is for all of his creation.

And you may find that you look forward to the business meeting. You know what I look forward to? Being done with this episode, as much fun as it has been. 

Josh: Adios. 

Joe: Raise your Ebenezer. Gotta say it different every time.